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    王安憶vs張新穎:文明的縫隙,除不盡的余數,抽象的美學(下)

    時間:2016/3/25 23:07:49 點擊:

    張新穎:我讀這個小說還有一點很驚異,就是原來我們講這個世界的變化,講滄海桑田,總是會假設如果發生這樣比較大的變化,時間是很漫長的,但是你在這里面寫的大變化,發生的時間很短。林窟變沒了,也就從七十年代末到現在;那個燒窯的地方,一下子就變成了水庫底下的地方。想想是這么短的時間,要把一個文明毀掉,根本不需要太長的時間,這有點驚心動魄了。

    王安憶:對,因為人太強大了嘛。人到上世紀末,建設和毀壞的速度是極快的,周期越來越短,非常之短。

    張新穎:我們原來想象滄海桑田,是要過幾千年幾萬年的。但是在這個里面,不但快,而且看不出來,如果不是這么一個人到那里去發現的話,簡單地看看,就會以為完全是一個荒蠻的世界,之前的痕跡完全被抹去了。

    王安憶:對啊。我這里面還特別提到盤山公路,我覺得公路吧,就像把一個瓜剖開來了,然后在這些橫切面里面,生活就暴露出來了。這些人,我相信他們一直都存在著,在生活著,擁有一個完整的小世界,但是就一下子被公路破開來了。那時我聽我媽講,那時有人出來,還穿清朝的衣服嘞,拖著辮子。我們看到的生活都是一塊塊很整的嘛,其實有很多縫隙的,這些縫隙是我們難以想象的。

    張新穎:文明突然坍塌了一塊,就可以看到平時隱藏著的一些縫隙。整個的作品,你想寫的是什么東西,什么意思呢?    

    王安憶:整個的作品——這是一個很大的問題。整個作品我想寫的和我以前寫的作品都不一樣。以前我很想寫的就是生活,生活里隱藏著自身的美學,人際關系,人性里面潛藏的那些美學;這個東西吧,我就覺得它不是具象的,它是寫一個在我們表象底下,抽象的存在,抽象的美學。所以我說很困難的地方是找不到一個合適的表象來對應它。

    張新穎:以前的作品寫的是人和人之間的關系。

    王安憶:對,是人世間。

    張新穎:那么這個作品其實主要不是人和人的關系。

    王安憶:對啊,這里的人都是孤立的。人好像都承擔著我要給與他們的任務似的,所以這里所有的人都是無中生有。

    張新穎:這個作品難說的地方在哪里呢,就是這里面要表達的東西太多了。你沒辦法用一句話或者三句話來概括。

    王安憶:可能是年齡的關系,還是寫得太多的關系,我現在寫小說的話,就會變得很挑剔,變得特別的挑。挑的時候就會需要抉擇,比較困難,就不會像以前寫得那么舒服,那么順利了。其實寫作是個自我滿足,如果那種方式不能滿足你的話,那就不那樣寫了。這個寫完,滿足還是滿足的,但是呢,不像以前那么自信,自信很圓滿。這個我覺得毛病是很多的,寫得不圓。

    張新穎:這個不圓才好。主要是,我們處在一個已經命名好了的世界里。你現在把那個人推到那個最初,其實人回不到那個最初,但是你把他推到那個最初,然后讓他重新來起,這樣一個人,好像初次面對世界的那樣的關系,這樣能寫出驚訝來,寫出感受來。

    王安憶:對。他要重新建立關系。但是我還是用舊材料,文明廢墟上的磚瓦,反復使用,總還是會有新東西產生吧。這個故事很容易讓人以為我要對現代文明進行什么批判,其實我沒有能力去批判它。我還是服從循環,一個圈,永遠走不出來。

    張新穎:他其實是歷史。我覺得寫他,寫的是歷史,人的歷史。其實在我們每一個人身上,都包含著人類的全部歷史。

    王安憶:對,其實是這個意思。一個生命從他出生到最后,到死亡,這個過程都得走一遍。慢慢識字,慢慢思想,都得走一遍。

    作者:王安憶 張新穎 來源:收獲
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